Islam vs. Islamism: Imam Tawhidi’s Warning and Its Echoes in Miami-Dade and Florida (+VIDEO)

Introduction
Tawhidi: Khamenei is the Persian Hitler. That’s exactly how you should look at it. Khamenei is the Persian Hitler 100%. Someone who could execute 30,000 people without trial.

Patrick: What percentage of Muslims around the world would be seen as extremism?

Osama bin Laden, for example, many people do not know that he was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Al-Qaeda came out of the Muslim Brotherhood. ISIS came out of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Hamas is the paramilitary wing of the Muslim Brotherhood. But Obama brought them in and made them the face of the Muslim community in America. The Muslim population in America.

Why do you say Obama? It was when they declared victory. They became advisors to the White House. Khamenei is useless. This guy is a real criminal, Patrick. There needs to be a clash of turbans. The turbans need to start clashing.

Patrick: Did you ever think you were… What’s your point? The future looks bright. My handshake is better than anything I’ve ever signed. Patrick: Right here. You’re 101. My son is right. I don’t think I’ve ever said this before.
We have a special guest with us today, Imam Muhammad Tawhidi .

Tohidi Tahawidi:, depending on how you pronounce it. I am from Iran,

Patrick: Tohidi. And uh, this is a very, very interesting figure. I’ve been listening and watching for many, many years. He’s the governing member of the global council of imams, counterterrorism advisor at Trends Research and Advisory.

Imam Tawhidi, it’s great to have you on the podcast.

Tawhidi: Nice to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Patrick: Anytime. Right. So, uh, there’s a lot of topics I want to cover, but before we get started, uh, if you don’t mind, take a minute and share your background before we get into the questions so the audience knows.

Tawhidi: Sure. Uh, my name is uh Muhammad Tawhidi. I’m a third generation imam. I’m an ordained Islamic cleric. I was ordained in the holy city of Qom in Iran, which you know. And uh, I’m an Australian citizen.

I currently reside in North America and also have extensive travel in the Middle East with a focus on the UAE. Uh, I specialize in Islamic law and uh, my faith for those wondering, I am an orthodox Shia Muslim.

Uh, orthodox is not an Islamic term, but it is the closest thing uh so that the listener uh understands that I am not a reformer in any way. I believe in reform of societies eh, reform that does not involve change of religion.

So I want the religion to remain as God revealed it and not man-made, because man-made is not accepted in Islam.

Patrick: Right. So, the current population of Islam is what, 1.7, 1.8, 1.9 billion, going up to two billion.

Tawhidi: Going up to two billion.

Patrick: Okay. How many of the Islamic Muslim community, how many of them see things the way you do? I’ve heard you say about this before. It’s not a large percentage of people, but for you, a lot of people call you the Imam of Peace. I think your handle is even Imam of Peace. You even call yourself the imam of peace, right?

And there’s always a, you know, confusion between this is the religion of peace, but we saw what happened on 9/11. This is the religion of peace, but we saw what happened with uh Hamas and Israel. This is the religion of peace, but we saw what happened in Australia recently.

This is the religion of peace, but so to me you seem pretty peaceful, you give me the vibe that you’re really trying to pursue peace, yet out of the 1.9 billion, give or take about two billion, how many of them think like you?

Tawhidi: So I’m a follower of my religion and to break it down in a uh in such a simple way, I don’t think it would be fair to the religion itself or to its adherents or to countries like the UAE, Bahrain, who are working very hard to establish peace and harmony uh or their populations.

So the distinction we need to make is between Islam and Islamism.

Extremists, Normals and Muslim Leaders Promoting Peace
Islam as a religion and Islamism as a contemporary political ideology that uses Islam to gain power.

And Islamists are not a monolith. So there are Islamists who believe in eh participate in eh democratic principles eh. You’ll find them running for Congress.

And you have those who uh simply engage in jihad and jihad can be categorized in many, many ways. Uh and I mean violent jihad. I don’t mean the struggle of the self against one’s desires.

No, I mean enter a society and change it. Entering a community and hijacking its values and then preventing the host community from enjoying those values, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, expression and so on.

So I would advise that uh we need to separate, we need to draw a fine line between the Muslim Brotherhood who were in the West first and the Muslims who came later who just want to lead a normal life.

So there is no percentage that I can give you because we are not talking about the same problem. We are talking about a group of people who have hijacked a religion and those people need to be understood because in eh in Arabic we say what it means that you are stirring next to the pot or next to the cup.

We need to stir in the cup to get the taste of the sugar we put in it. So that’s exactly what the extremists want to do. The extremist doesn’t tell you he’s an extremist.

And the Islamist doesn’t tell you he is an Islamist. They tell you we are Muslims. Osama bin Laden, for example, many people don’t know that he was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Al-Qaeda came out of the Muslim Brotherhood. ISIS came out of the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas is the paramilitary wing of the Muslim Brotherhood.

This is not Sunni Islam. This is an organization with its own charter. That is the distinction we need to make. Otherwise, we will be discussing a problem that is far removed from the disease itself. Right.

Patrick: So how differently, how does the Muslim Brotherhood Infiltrates Immigration and Western Politics view the world?

So, let’s put them in a different community. So I think it’s very important to do this.

Uh uh you have those who are extremists, okay, the ones you’re talking about. Then you have those who came later, not the first ones from the Muslim Brotherhood who came. The others who just came, they’re like, “Look, I just want to live in America. I just want to live in Australia. I just want to live my life and have a regular life.”

Then you have those who are like you, you know, claiming, presenting peace as the basis of the way you want to live. Right.

Give me in your when you’re talking to Tommy Robinson, you said, “I think there’s about 5 million people like me, like you.” Then he said, “And really like me?” It’s only about 500,000 people who are like me.

You said this to Tommy, I think seven or eight years ago when you guys did an interview.

Okay. But today, if you can break it down, I think the the the the extremist is this, the people who just live their regular life is this and this or maybe if you want to add something else as well,

How would you break down these sects?

Tawhidi: Yes, I think eh I was very eh general in talking to eh Tommy in that interview and I think I think eh I understood the question to be within Australia.

So how many like you within Australia and I still believe those numbers are accurate. I think most Muslims not only support peace, they lead a peaceful lifestyle and don’t want to see eh Muslim Brotherhood or Bin Laden or ISIS or Hamas as their proxies.

And the evidence of that eh would point to the reaction to Oct. 7. How many did we see flooding the streets in support of Hamas? How many did we see?

I could safely say throughout the Americas about 150,000 would have flooded the streets between Toronto and Montreal and New York. Hey and and that goes on, but it’s the same community.

I don’t think we saw 3 million flooding the Muslim streets supporting Hamas. That didn’t happen. And that becomes a policy question.

How long are the White House and eh parliaments around the world going to allow the Muslim Brotherhood to be the face of the Muslim community? Because that is exactly what it is in Obama’s time.

Well, congratulations to Florida and Texas. Uh I think a very very important move designating CAIR as a terrorist entity. Uh they’re being sued right now. By the way, I don’t know if you saw it. If there is anything we can do as experts in Islam and counterterrorism eh to support the state of Florida against CAIR and Texas against CAIR, please contact us.

I will say this, I don’t know if they will win or lose. It doesn’t matter. The point is we can’t allow them to operate freely. Hey and I understand that there is a lack of uh Muslim expertise pushing back against CAIR because they are intimidated by them. They are like a mafia. That’s exactly what they are. They are a Muslim mafia and so kudos to that.

That is a very important distinction because CAIR cannot enter certain mosques. Please don’t think that CAIR has the ability to enter any mosque in America. No, they would be kicked out. They have their own mosques. They have their own centers that are like a ghetto. So they are very isolated.

But Obama brought them in and made them the face of the Muslim community in America. The Muslim population in America.

Patrick: Why do you say Obama? Because that’s when they declared victory, they became advisors to the White House. If a president of the United States of America organizes an iftar where Muslims break their fast and then brings in a member of the Muslim Brotherhood community to initiate the call to prayer, that’s a symbolic victory for the worldwide Muslim Brotherhood.

That’s the that’s like 95% infiltration for them. That’s how they see it. And they just go back and tell their members, you know, it’s not just about symbolism. It’s more about motivation.

Because the Muslim Brotherhood can go 10 months without success and suddenly Ramadan comes and they are in the White House.

So, uh it kind of validates everything they’ve been doing before they came to the White House and by extension it will validate everything they do after. Right. So just, that’s celebration. I totally get that. That’s a big deal.

I also think Mandani winning New York is also a big victory because they are taking over the financial capital of the world. That’s a massive validation when Mandani won.

Patrick: But again, let’s go back to it. So you’re saying when you saw October 7 happen, how many people did you see around the world or in the streets? Canada, U.S., I 150,000. fair. We can debate that number and we can verify that number. what worldwide?

Tawhidi: I think it’s more. Good.

Patrick: So, it’s a it’s a massive number that happened all over the world, but that’s not the question I’m asking. I’m going to go back to the comment you made on this, but this is the question I’m asking.

What percentage have we seen the numbers, but according to you, this is your world, your studio, and anything and every article that comes out when I was in the insurance space for 20 years.

Any article that came out in the insurance space, I had to read it because it’s my world. So, this is your world. What percentage of Muslims around the world would you see as extremists? Sunni Shia doesn’t matter. What percentage would you say as extremists?

Tawhidi: I don’t think I can give you a percentage because it would need to be based on studies on this subject and I am not aware of a study that eh presented it in this way. But I can tell you this the UAE how we talk on a very realistic level so I can answer your question in a different way.

Hey, I might not be able to give you a percentage, but I want to give you an honest answer.

Decisions in the Muslim world happen where they happen in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. They happen in Mecca and they happen in Abu Dhabi, UAE. They don’t happen in Tehran.

And they don’t happen anywhere else. This is important. The decision makers of the Muslim world, both religion and region, are heading in a direction that is not just about the Abrahamic Accords, but more towards peace, coexistence, harmony, prosperity, building bridges with societies, total rejection of extremism, and so on.

That’s a massive society because it’s not just about numbers. If we are talking about numbers, then we have to go to Indonesia because they have the largest Muslim population eh per country.

Mhm. But and they are 98% 90 98 98 92% some as they are massive. So they don’t make decisions for the Muslim world. It happens in Saudi Arabia.

My message is more than welcome in Saudi Arabia. My message is more than welcome in the UAE. And the same applies to Bahrain. I’m not saying it’s not welcome in Indonesia. No, it is.

But there are decision makers in the Muslim world. And if the decision-makers are heading in a certain direction that should be able to answer where the religion is heading in terms of direction and mood and priorities and so forth

and it will also give you a clear understanding of the future of the religion if it is being led by Abu Dhabi the Abrahamic Accords the Abrahamic family house that kind of narrative and total rejection of the Muslim Brotherhood.

So while I can’t give you a percentage of how many Muslims out of the two billion are extremists, how many are fundamentalists, how many are just uh Muslims in name only, how many practice, how many practice only in Ramadan, that’s a breakdown I can’t honestly provide.

But what I can say is that the decision makers in the Muslim world are heading in a direction that is very positive.

Correct?

And also I think they are being greatly supported by the rest of the Muslim world. Pakistan for example, Muslims in India for example, Saudi Arabia and the UAE are doing. And there are other countries that are not in line,

right?

Like the Palestinian territories eh and and others that are obvious. Okay, so this is this is this is let’s use simple basic statistics. I’ve seen up to 20% extremist, which I think is BS.

And I’ve seen up to 1%, which I also think is a low number. Let’s use 5%. Let’s use 10%. Pick a number between 5 and 10%. Most of the numbers you see will give you a number between 1 and 10%.

A lot of studies out there percent is 20 million percent is 20 million correct so if we go to 5% that’s approximately

hundred million or so right so now imagine a 100 million is a third of America you know 100 million at 5% is a third of America 100 million when you look at Australia Australia may be a lot of land but it’s not a lot of people,

right?

Canada may be a lot of land, not a lot of people. UK can be a big island, you know, it’s so when you then break it down that number and they go to these different countries.

Patrick: So now imagine you’re the leader of that country, you’re the president of that country and President Trump comes to you as an advisor. Kirst comes to you as an advisor. Mark Carney comes to you as an advisor saying, “Imam Tawhidi, you sound very reasonable. You sound extremely peaceful. You sound like someone I can sit down and have a conversation with. We can laugh. We can talk. And I feel the genuineness of you.”

Right? What do I do when I’m dealing with immigration?

When I know that 100 million of this sect this Muslim religion Islam is extremist and support violence a large percentage support you know let’s say you put one or three% support what Houthis Hamas Hezbollah you know I lived with Hezbollah in Iran I was there for 10 11 years.

I’ve met many many many many many members of Hezbollah because you know my sister and my mom we would walk the streets and you’d see things and they’d come up and like oh my god you’re shaking you’re worried about what they’re going to do next. You live in fear. It’s not a nice place to be.

How do we filter who we let in and who we don’t? Do you use a zero tolerance policy?

Don’t let anybody in. do you take the risk with what we took immigration the last four years in America under Biden that people got in and who knows what percentage? How? Because our job is to protect America first, right? What advice would you give them?

Tawhidi: Yes, your immigration policy. Exposing Iran’s Clerical Cult and Its Global Ideological Export needs to be tied to your understanding of sovereignty. So if sovereignty is sacred, then immigration policy needs to be viewed through the same lens.

You can’t have a soft weak immigration policy at all. The UAE is a perfect example.

That’s Saudi Arabia. How’s immigration there? It’s perfect. 200 nationalities living together. Why? Because there’s an excellent, not just good, an excellent verification system.

You cannot be someone who harbors eh jihadist ideology and simply apply for a visa to go to a Gulf state. They won’t accept you because there’s a serious verification system. And if they find out that you somehow got through, and by the way, there are famous people who built a career simply because they were deported from the UAE during the Arab Spring, the so-called Arab Spring. Hey, politics is beautiful.

The minute they find out they made a mistake because they let someone in who then went online and made a comment or supported a certain narrative that goes against national security, immediately, knock, where are your bags? Pack. DXP Dubai airport direct out of the country.

There is no negotiation when it comes to security. Why? Because it’s a security decision. So, U.S. immigration policy needs to be viewed through a security lens, not a political lens. That’s what we’re seeing in America.

Everything about the border has been a political question, not a security question. In the Middle East, borders are viewed through a security lens.

That’s why there are zero extremist terrorists in Abu Dhabi. That’s why there’s no one blowing themselves up in Riyadh in Jeddah. That’s why it’s a is it’s very important that we talk this way. Even though it may be foreign to the American listener, but the understanding of national security in the Middle East is very different because we know these people.

The extremists who are migrating to the West are those who were rejected from our societies are those who would be in prison. Muslim Brotherhood communities.

You can name me millions of extremists. I will not deny it. I will tell you already know what that is exactly right and if we go to those individuals and understand their ideology one way or the other it will lead us back to the Muslim Brotherhood a 98 year old organization that planned this disaster 100 years ago Patrick.

how do I deal with a politician who thinks in terms of four years how do you discuss immigration with a politician whose mindset ends in four years and who sits with you from 9 to 5. So whatever you say to him, he looks at it through a he he he he puts he fits you through the 9 to 5 schedule. After 5 o’clock he’s in a bar, he’s you know he’s out of this world.

Fighting Islamist extremism is my life. I don’t have a 9 to 5 schedule. I can’t sit down with a legislator who before meeting with me is dealing with I don’t know something with the economy and then wants to deal with LGBTQ with all due respect issues.

It’s not about listening to us. It’s about listening, following and acting on it. That’s why I have a policy between me and myself. If I sit down with a legislator and give them advice and they don’t listen and something goes wrong, I will never speak to them again.

There are no second chances because we understand this community. We live with them. We run from them. We can identify them without having to study about it. We know these people. When we say they are a threat, they are a threat on many levels.

No not just on many levels, not just because they reject America. No, no, no. The whole idea of immigration needs to be eh revisited simply because not all immigrants are the same. Not all immigrants are the same.

And dare I mention someone like Ilhan Omar. I would not see her as a legitimate immigrant to America. I just wouldn’t. There is a vast difference between her and a Muslim who came from another Muslim country who built an incredible career in America and serves in the military for example and defends America and you will find those Muslims who oppose her and her policies and are very visible.

What would happen if she went to the UAE or Saudi Arabia? What would they do with her if she said she wanted to be a resident there? Would they welcome her?

There are laws in place. If you enter legally, I imagine eh she again I’m not a decision maker here in immigration, but I imagine those who follow the law will be treated by the law eh equally.

But I doubt for a single second that the Muslim Brotherhood narrative will be accepted for a single second.

I doubt ya know a like on a CAIR post could get you deported. There is absolutely zero tolerance for extremism. Absolutely. In the UAE and when I say absolutely I mean from the top down. The youngest UAE citizen will not accept extremism. It’s so serious. And and look, if you’re looking for freedom of expression, you’ll find it.

But freedom of speech does not mean I say I want you to be beheaded. That’s not a view that is considered respectful or an ideology that has a place or should have a place within society. You know, extremists in America openly say, “We’re here to overthrow democracy.” That’s exactly what they say. We’re here to establish a global caliphate.

We want sharia law, right? Try that in Saudi Arabia and see how long you last. Try that in Abu Dhabi. See how long you last. The thing about religion is it came to guide. So I’m a Muslim. I believe God sent a religion to guide me. Religion is not here to rule by the sword.

Religion is a source of spirituality and and and and uh taking the human hand by their hand to areas where they can excel in their humanity in their moral understanding of life in religion in their relationship between themselves and God. That is the role of religion.

The minute you turn the Quran into a constitution like we have in Iran where people are being hanged and beheaded, that’s when you know, okay, so Islam has been used as a constitution so that many can become king of Iran. And that’s what he is. He’s a king. He’s not a cleric. He’s not a man of God.

Persia has always been ruled by kings. And now we have a king with a turban. That’s exactly what he is. Not a man of God. He’s a pharaoh. He’s a Persian pharaoh.

Khamenei is the Persian Pharaoh. Khamenei is a is a king of king of Iran. He is a king of Iran.

So why do you say that? Because what?

Because he can do anything and everything. And the whole idea of an election in Iran is a farce. It’s a fake. There are no elections in Iran at all. No Iranian has a voice under the system of which is the guardianship of the jurist.

Can I just explain that to the American listener?

Now, uh we are familiar with communism. We are familiar with socialism, democracy. There is a system in Iran which is not only theocracy. It is the guardianship of the jurist which means or a person in his position before him is the guardian over all Muslims, not only Shia Muslims, even Sunni Muslims.

It claims to be the guardian over Islam. Pakistanis, Malays, Indonesians, Saudis, UAE. It’s ridiculous.

Well, what does that mean? It means he has the authority, absolute authority on behalf of God to do whatever he wants. He can look at you and say, “Patrick, you and your wife are divorced.” And boom, just like that, your marriage is over simply because he said so.

So the whole idea that 90 million people are expected to vote for a president and then the president goes and kisses Khamenei’s hand and says you know what ignore the people whatever you say I will do that is the biggest scam in the history of scams that the Iranian people have to live through you know and no not just a disaster it’s something that is somehow tolerated by the international community especially the Europeans tolerate it there are no elections in Iran United Nations S what do you have? You have a president.

You have prime ministers attend. You have kings attend. You have chancellors attend. You have chancellors. You have presidents of certain parties attend like the PCC. Okay. But there is no such thing as a president.

And then above him there is the supreme Islamic leader who rules in the name of God who gets to run the country and thinks in his mind to run the world the way he wants. That is Islamism.

There is no such thing as God speaking to you saying you are my deputy in the name of the savior so kill as you will bomb as you will. Massacre as you will. There is no such thing in the Koran that says that. What we have is a regime. We don’t even have a government in Iran. There is no government.

And it is very wrong for people to think that there is a system of government in Iran. There is not a regime. It is a cult. A cult of clerics who rule Iran in the name of God.

Why?

Because it is the best tool to use against populations in mass religion. Because the minute you oppose it, it’s not that you opposed eh ruler. No, no, no. You are certainly not a Muslim anymore. How can you oppose the supreme ruler who is the guardian on behalf of God and his savior on planet Earth? So you are clearly not a Muslim.

Clearly you cannot be praying because if you pray then you would have had the mercy to be with the regime and if that is the case then you must also eat pork and slowly slowly you will be taken out of anything called faith and that is when you become an execution you are a corrupter on planet Earth and so on and so forth.

We need to distinguish between Islam and Islamism because there is a lot there that the Islamist relies on you to ignore. The Islamist will not tell you I am an Islamist and they are Muslims.

No, he will tell you I am a Muslim and they are again extremist does not tell you he is an extremist and Islamist does not tell you he is an Islamist. They are using religion. Half of them don’t even pray.

Do you think Ilhan Omar can recite the Quran? Do you think he can open the page and start reading that?

Impossible. These people, the majority of CAIR, do not even know the structure and chronology of the Quran. They do not even know the context behind the revelation.

These are people who, if they need anything now, chatGPT, it is their faith. But governments have allowed them to be the face of the Muslim community in America.

In 2009, 2008, end of December 2008, you went back to Qom, right? To go to school there for three years. And Qom from 2008 until 2013. Right. But you went back 08-09 to go to school there and you were there for two eh 2013.

Yes.

And Qom is where Khamenei is from I think if I’m not mistaken. Khamenei is in Qom.

If not, it is where he studied with Ruhollah Khamenei in the days when they were fighting against the Shah in the plans of the first time exiled, the second time exiled.

They have tried multiple different times and it was kicked out and it went all over the place and then eventually in France when you went to school there you can break down what the structure of the school is so the audience also understands when you went to school there at what point was it when you said I can’t subscribe to this teaching I have to get out of here what caused that well question beautiful now Khamenei was born in Mashhad that’s on the other side of the country.

Uh, Mashhad and Qom are very important. So for our listeners, Qom is where the holy shrine of Hazrat Masumeh is the sister of Imam Reza who is buried in Mashhad.

Imam Reza is the eighth successor of the holy prophet. So we are uh 12 12 imams. Number eight is Imam Reza. So that’s a holy city of Mashhad.

And I was born in the holy city of Qom. And I came back to study in the holy city of Qom in December 2008. And I stayed until 2013. Now, and both studied in the holy city of Qom and including Hassan Nasrallah, the former secretary general of Hezbollah all studied in Qom.

Now, Qom is a seminary that has education that is basic, intermediate and some entry level to advanced studies. People usually finish their studies in Qom and then they go to Najaf in Iraq which is the main ancient seminary eh for Shia Muslims eh in the world and that’s a thousand years old.

When it comes to Qom it was an open society, an open seminary where you had mosques and Islamic centers and you had a cleric, a senior cleric who had 20, 30 up to a thousand students sitting around him and he would talk about theology, Islamic law, doctrine, ethics, mysticism, you name it.

Comes the Iranian revolution of 1979, and by the way, it’s not an Iranian revolution. There’s nothing Iranian about it. Listeners need to know that Khamenei was an Indian man, right? It’s not even Iranian.

Uh, but it was an Islamist revolution, not an Islamic revolution, an Islamist revolution. Coming to 1979, Khamenei understood that he had to do something about these clerics.

He had to do something about the Islamic law that governs Iran and governs the society. So what he did was that he turned these free education circles and systems into institutions and he turned the seminary into a university and called it Al-Mustafa International University.

The university where I studied and I should say Patrick one of the best decisions I made in my life as I always say was to withdraw from that university.

Why is that?

Because it is the university that is governed by the IRGC, governed by the army that is responsible for supporting and Hamas and the Houthis and so on. But uh we should also mention that it’s not a university like the traditional universities that we have.

It’s the umbrella organization for over 10, 15,000 schools and educational institutions and seminaries in Iran throughout the country and now even in the Middle East and they have deputies everywhere recruiting students now. Hey so their building on the street is not a real university that you can go and study at.

No, it is an administration that sends you to another university. When you graduate from that university, you get a certificate from Al-Mustafa University. So these guys will teach you revolutionary Islam.

How do we export Khamenei’s revolution to Australia, to America, to Canada? How do we bring American citizens?

And if I could just ask, could you Google just put uh uh Ali school with an I? Yes. School. Q O M. Yes. Okay. That’s the first one there. See that’s where the Americans go. Click on that first picture for me, please. Okay. So, you see on the left side where that white banner is, that’s my room. I was there with 13 students. That’s my dorm room.

The first level is where you have the uh uh classrooms and that you see at the bottom there that railing the blue and white railing at the bottom that takes you to the basement. Okay. Underneath there are more classrooms that look the same. So first level, second level from the top down are where the students sleep and then the first floor is the classrooms and below that are more classrooms.

My room is number 13 where not on the right side where the uh uh banner is that’s where you were? That’s where I was for 2 years. This is where the British, the Australians, the Westerners who are taken from the West are taken here.

Why?

To learn Farsi. You learn Farsi, you can understand what Khamenei says. You can move correctly. This is the first thing they do. You see those two pictures there? Mhm. That’s the main library that was added later and on top. That’s a library that was added later. That one is higher.

Who gets to go there? Anyone can go to that library?

Yes. Because everyone here is verified. Everybody here is an asset. So the MP from Al-Mustafa University coming to the West sees you as an asset. Okay, immediate Australian passport, you speak English, you speak Arabic, you’re somewhat charismatic, you’re convincing.

You know what? We’re going to take you to Qom and so this is where the brainwashing happened. From here they take you to the Friday sermons of this is where they come first.

The first year is Farsi and the second year is what they call Tamhidiyya which is the basics of Islam. Then you move on to university style seminars. Now here is the problem. They say one year but it is never one year. We have 12 imams.

All of them except one have funeral days three days. Birthday three days. Hey you know revolution holidays, victory, this that this that this that you’re looking at one and a half to two years here for to learn Farsi and they use that not only to strengthen your language but to get you used to this region this street.

Who were some of your classmates? Well, before you get there, next door is the Basij headquarters. The Basij which is the uh the youth corps of the IRGC is literally next door to this building. So my classmates are I’m going to say this and I haven’t said this before.

The clerics who now lead the Al-Quds march which is the pro IRGC march eh on the last Friday of Ramadan every year. I’ve led them in New York and in Toronto. They were my classmates. We studied together.

Were they brainwashed? Of course. Because everything they do, look, a clergyman needs to talk religion. How do you know a clergyman respects himself when he sticks to what eh is supposed to do? Religion, theology, doctrine, community service, they are all politicized, political clergy of no value. Their their understanding of religion is too shallow, too deep.

I mean, it needs to be deep, but it’s very shallow. You know, an atheist can easily knock them down with two questions because they haven’t been taught the proper fundamentals of theology and doctrine in Islam.

It’s always been biography biography biography. When he was born, he came out of his mother’s womb and there was a scream in the in the heavens, did you hear that?

Right. So, that’s what they teach them. It all revolves around the character of Khamenei as the savior.

Have you ever met him?

No, I haven’t. Here’s the thing. Meeting face to face. No, but we were together in a eh so when he came to Qom he came to Qom and we were chosen by a cleric. I’ll mention his name eh Sheikh Adman.

I won’t mention his first name, but he was the man responsible for the Australian students. He came to me and said, “We are doing two things. We are going the week before Khamenei comes to Tehran and I still have the entry ID eh badge that you wear and you attend.

You’re not sitting in the front rows because that’s where the IRGC officials sit. You’re sitting towards the center of their uh sermon. Uh, I saw it and again uh to be honest with you, they prepare you for a spiritual event uh uh. It’s not like the bus drops you off and you go into a mosque and then there it is.

No, no, no. It’s uh not tunnels, but it’s it’s it’s uh alleys that you walk down that are prepared with uh banners and signs and flags and and just uh symbolism, revolutionary symbolism. And then you go in and the guards everywhere the Sepah and they’re green and and and and sometimes blue eh and then they guide you and you know your your your group director on that day changes because his life depends on this. He becomes a different person. He’s not the guy who’s nice to you like so he’s very strict.

It takes you inside we sit here and then when you go inside you see there is an ocean of people. You’re not the only one, not the only group. And before that, you have his minions, clerics, coming up to the microphone who are cheering the audience. So by the time Khamenei comes out, that’s why people walk behind him and kiss the place where his feet touch and you know, death to America, death to England, death to Israel, death to hypocrites. That’s that’s how it happened. They build you up.

And I will tell you this, as deviant as Khamenei is, and as crooked as his people are, they are excellent speakers. He is useless. The only thing he’s good at is he’s a very good speaker. He can move a rock when he speaks. And I felt it. This guy is a real criminal.

I’ll tell you. Hey, there’s a lot of psychology involved. See where Khamenei sits? That’s a shipping container. He sits in a shipping container. So, two shipping containers that are glued and welded together. If you want to take it out, take this out. Yes, take him out. He’s actually in a shipping container and he’s bulletproof. It’s shipping container. Yeah, no that’s the that’s Hitler’s uh Robent.

Basic names. Rob, how are you getting this wrong? Shipping container. Okay, hold on. See that third image? The third image. The third image. Yeah, that one. So, that’s a shipping container. There’s a curtain behind it. Or you can go back and say uh uh change the two words to Friday sermon.

Yes. Good. Do you see that? The first image, for example, you see that that’s a shipping container that’s in.

Uh or for example, change the the the last two words put oh sorry leave them add the word Q O M because it was in a shipping container in Qom of course with pictures they won’t show it but uh where it’s standing that third picture above the one I pointed out before that there for example behind it is two welded shipping containers that put it in and they’re covered you know they’re not going to have DHL or anything in them.

Hey they are covered well and because number one is security and no one can get to it except a guy named Vahid. You want to take out the name Vahid just beside put Vahid this guy. Okay. That guy that’s his number one henchman. He’s the real ruler of Iran. Not the president.

It is this guy to get is the head of Khamenei’s office affairs. There should be a Wikipedia about him. Supreme leader of is Iran’s right hand man Ali often referred to as General Vahid. Yes. He goes by a name Vahid all over the country.

Right. So you know where you were going with this with who it is? (chuckles) Okay. Rob, can we turn the AC on a little bit now? It’s a little hot. Vahid is the guy who decides where he goes and the we need to understand the makeup of Iran as a country so we can understand how we got to how we got to how we got to Hamas because Hamas is for sale. Hamas was paid for by Iran.

They are Sunnis but the Shiites paid them in Iran. I want to be fair to you and to the listeners. I want to take a step back.

Exposing Khamenei’s Corruption and Imam Tawhidi’s Disillusionment.
Many people say the reason why the Muslim world is successful and they mean the UAE eh and Saudi Arabia, they say is because they pushed Islam aside, not because Islam is eh good in these countries. That’s what they say. And of course, that’s not correct.

In Iran, we have a system where the clerics rule not only the government but also the hospitals, the technology sector, the education sector. There is no sector in Iran in intelligence that the clerics are not ruling. So you can’t have a fully functional vibrant society when you don’t have experts at the top.

What the UAE did was that they respected religion. Religion is sacred. It cannot be placed in an intelligence department or in a hospital. So they bring experts into these fields. That’s the difference my brother. That’s the difference.

Iran went down this road of destruction because it is run by mullahs. It is run by clerics. It is not run by experts. Khamenei’s family. I don’t know if you’ve looked at this or not. Apparently, the family is worth 92 billion or so.

If you write Kham eh eh eh oh yeah, 95 to 200 billion in the kind of money they’ve made. So, so Vahid, are you saying that Vahid might be the who might be in the future when Khamenei is no longer here with us? No, he’s the decision maker. He will never be anything. No, because he wants to be behind the scenes.

It has to be behind the scenes. So, he runs Iran. In other words, he’s the guy who runs the country. He runs Iran. He runs the country.

Have you met him?

No, of course not.

What do you mean, of course not?

No. I will tell you this.

Can you uh just type my name into Google?

Just put Tawhidi t and then No, no, no, no. Tawhidi. Okay, you’re going to do that. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Hold on. And then next to it, just put Hassan and then put Rob is having a tough day today.

No Yes, there you go. Okay. Just go uh go to pictures. Oh, so you met with Khamenei’s grandson? Of course I did. I I I I was uh you know that’s you and him. You might even consider me something of an advisor to these guys in this house. This is in Tehran. This is in Khamenei’s shrine in his private residence. Now, I want you to look at this picture.

By the way, Patrick, I’m not being arrogant here, but I just want you to see exactly what you’re looking at so you know who uh you’re podcasting today.

How long has this been going on?

This is 2016. Right. Hey, zoom in on the dishes. I see chai. Okay. (chuckles)

What do you see on my plate? No, no, no. Go, go in the back. Go in the back. Go in the back. Go in the back. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Stay there. Hey, what do you see on that one on my plate? I see tea, but I don’t know what that other piece is. It’s an orange.

Good. But what am I missing? I’m missing orange peels. Okay. He’s got the peels, right? So, he peeled it for you. Right. (Chuckles) I get what you’re saying. So the relationship is that he was serving you. More like being kind and generous. Respect. Yes. In a good way. Kind. He does.

What was he like? What was Khamenei’s grandson like?

This guy doesn’t believe in eh at all. He is an atheist in my opinion. I think if he could, he would take out Khamenei.

Oh, are you kidding?

Yeah. No, this guy and he still lives there. Look, I say this. I know this might upset you, but he in no way is a is a cleric in the same way as Khamenei.

Why do you say that? No, this guy is fed up. His eh grandfather made the revolution and he has no voice in the government. They give him a mosque. Here’s your grandfather’s grave. Go clean it and serve it. Yeah. He has no voice. He’s a teacher. They won’t even let him in.

They say in order for you to become Iran’s expert council, you know, you need to take a test. And he tells them, I’m the grandson of Khamenei. I take a test, I need to test you guys, right?

What is your relationship with? I mean, it has to be diplomatic or else he’s a pragmatic guy. He knows. He knows. Look at his own brother. You want to Google this?

Go go go up to Hadi. This is a K ha. No, no, no. Hadi with just the H A D I K H A M E. K H A M E. There you go. Shakam. No, no, no. K H A M E N E I. There you go. No. Hadi. Hadi. So H A. Yes. Okay, this is Khamenei’s brother. He was under house arrest. A lot of people don’t know this.

Why was he under house arrest? Low. I should say opposition. He’s a reformer. So a lot of you got your people to attack your own brother, right? Some conservatives blamed for the attack. Right?

So this is Khamenei lives in a world of contradictions. Remember the Ahmedinejad and the uh green uprisings?

Right. So, Mousavi is his cousin is Khamenei’s cousin and he would come out and say Khamenei is corrupt. His own brother says my brother is corrupt. His uncle says my nephew is corrupt.

Her eh husband of her sister who fled to France wrote a letter to Khamenei. He said how dare you apologize he said how dare you name my wife’s brother as the head of Friday prayers in Tehran when he is 123 accused him of being part of the LGBT community right in a letter and the guy lived in France and then yes he is dead but eh the point is very eh misunderstood in the West misunderstood Americans don’t know who is speaking to their students

When these uprisings happen in universities and Khamenei puts out a tweet and says, “I congratulate the students in America and and North America and they are standing up.” That’s not just foreign interference.

Americans don’t know what they are looking at.

This is the Shiite Osama bin Laden. That’s exactly how you need to look at it. This is the Osama bin Laden was Sunni.

He is the Shiite version of Osama bin Laden. And Khamenei is the Persian Hitler. That’s exactly how you need to look at them.

How many is Persian history?

100%. Someone who could execute 30,000 people without trial. I mean, without comparison. You’re looking at the Holocaust. Two million more.

But I am talking about the concept and the will. Right. You worked for the shah.

What were you? A chef or a driver? Execution.

We see this level of mentality and terrorism in Hitler’s likes.

What caused you to leave though? What caused you to say I’m leaving?

Australia. I didn’t come to seminary because I had nothing else to do with my life. A lot of the people who go there go there because they give you a stipend of $30 a month. Hey they give you a room and board, right?

And eh if you memorize the Quran and and important books of our corpus, what happens is that you get a higher stipend. And of course with religion comes respect. That’s why many people choose to go there.

I didn’t do that. I went to study. I went because I am a third generation imam. I went to increase my education, my theological education. But the minute you tell me I can’t read certain books and I can’t visit certain scholars. See I was a fundamentalist.

I am a former extremist. I used to support used to support these criminals. So the but the thing is that I came from a society that allowed me to read any book I wanted to read and visit any scholar I wanted to visit and sit with.

For you to now tell me I can’t do that. I didn’t come from Pakistan or Pakistan or Iraq like other students were. I didn’t come from the West. You can’t tell me I can’t read certain books. So that triggered it for me that you in a classroom that happened where you were told you can’t read those books. Oh no no no no.

What was happening is that naturally I would see signs of scholars in their offices daftar ayatollah so and so and so and I would go to their office and they would give me books. So I would take the books back to the dormitory and before I knew it my dormitory was raided. I went they searched me when I was praying you know congregational prayers.

They searched my room and when I came back I found everything uh not the way I left it. uh and and and it bothered me and so I began to understand there is a problem here that I was not aware of and then I began to uh investigate who the other clerics were, what was their problem with these clerics and I found out you know what you can still be a good Muslim and reject because there are grand ayatollahs who are the grandsons of the prophet who reject him.

So I immediately started visiting those guys and I sat with them and I read their books and I saw you know this is exactly what I came here for religion. You had me at Al-Mustafa University telling me that Tel Aviv needs to be bombed right and death to America and death to the UK and and and the queen is is Satan right and America is the big Satan and Israel is the little Satan.

I understand your hatred for them, but that’s not what I came here for. I came to study theology. I found it in the offices of the grand ayatollahs that they opposed. That’s when I said, “Well, there’s more here.” So, I picked up the phone to my father. I told him, he didn’t tell me. He said, “Well, I wanted you to understand on your own.”

He knew. My father was in Iran. We moved from Iran to Australia. How heavy how tall was your father? You’re fourth generation. So I’m third generation.

Third generation. Third generation. Okay. How high was your father? My father is a uh uh community clergyman. Oh, right. Community. I’m not involved in my world at all. Uh but he didn’t want to get involved in this kind of conversation. But I understood and when I understood, I said, you know what?

I’m not going to get involved with these guys anymore. And of course once they realize that you no longer subscribe to their ideology, the first thing that happens is they cancel your visa. right?

Although I was born in Iran, I was there as an Australian citizen. So they cancel your visa. Hey and then you have to sort it out on your own. But my visa still had time on it. I just didn’t apply to renew it. I had like eight nine months left. So what I did was I stayed in Iran and I stayed in another school that was offered eh a dormitory that was offered to me by these other good clergymen.

They are all fundamentalists but they were less corrupt. So their corruption would be financial wasting money on unnecessary initiatives. It would not be murder and blood and and and trying to bring down the West. None of that.

What were they teaching you there?

Like if you say the core teaching who is the enemy who did you see selling hate to the most? Who were you supposed to hate and love you know the most? Okay so you love whoever he loves and you hate whoever he hates. It’s as simple as that. If that’s fixed love changes it doesn’t matter.

The point is that you need to love who the state loves.

So who did Khamenei hate?

Of course, America. Of course, Israel, of course, the United Kingdom, of course, the West in general.

I mean, who’s at the top, who’s at the top of hatred for America? Number one. Number one, the great Satan ahead of Israel, of course. Right. So, the Omrib That was a regular thing. That happens every day.

You see it once a week after Friday sermons, but it happens every day in every mosque that is operated by the regime. Death to America. And I’ll tell you this, I saw you ask me a question eh when you reproduced my warning in 2009 eh after the attack in Australia.

Do you remember what that question was today? No.

When I thanked you for eh playing my 2019 clip.

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Clarifying the Age of Aisha and the Infallibility of Prophet Muhammad
What was the question? The question was, if you’re criticizing these guys, then why are you still a Muslim? Remember that question? He said, “Well, one could ask him why he is still a Muslim.”

And I really think we can’t uh not answer that question. It’s very important because it ties into the tens of millions of Iranians who don’t say death to America, who don’t attend these mosques, who don’t attend these rallies. What you’re looking at is a few million, okay, 20 million, 30 million.

How many millions love Khamenei 30?

Good. No problem. I’ll be generous with my numbers here. But at least half the population either doesn’t practice or hates it.

Why is that the case, why are they still Muslims? It’s not enough though. Yes, but why are they still Muslims?

I don’t know if they are Muslims. Like let me give you an idea. I think you said something very powerful today. You said uh so for an average Christian, they think all Muslims read the whole Quran from cover to cover. Right. So, think about it.

To the average Christian, what do they think? Oh, you’re a Muslim.

You have read the Koran. You have studied the Koran. You know everything in the Qur’an.

And you said, “What?” You said, “Do you think Ilhan Omar knows what’s in the Quran?”

She doesn’t. She is a person Koran ChatGPT,

isn’t it? That’s who it is. Right.

So what do you call those? I think there’s a large percentage of Muslims who are Muslims because that’s who their father was. It’s who their mother was. It’s traditionally Muslim. It’s not Muslim because they studied all religions and they chose Muslim.

It’s because they’re traditionally there. Now for you third generation, you listen, that’s a tradition. I had a guy here that was fourth uh uh uh generation Union Teamster from the union that Jimmy Hoffa came from. But he’s fourth generation.

Guess what your child will probably do? Union. Why? That tradition. However, you’re talking about different Muslims. You know what about these guys and what about these guys and what about these guys and what about these guys and what about these guys all follow the same book.

So if you’re looking at what’s going on, if it’s a hundred million around the world who are extremists and the ones in the middle who are good, they’re just living their lives, I don’t know if they’re practicing.

I don’t know if I would say 50% I don’t know if I would say even 70% of Muslims practice their religion. I would say they are just living their lives and they are not the fanatics. That’s not who I’m worried about.

That’s not who Westerners or conservatives or certain ideologies are worried about. It is the 100 million who completely are the extremists who see the West as the enemy.

Agreed. More than 100 million more. But there that’s a

Could we eh go to Google and eh just eh Google for me in the shadow of the Koran. There we go. Now that’s the Quran of the extremists. This is my Koran. This is mine. That’s their Quran.

What is the difference? Exactly. It is a highly influential commentary of the Koran.

By whom?

By Sayyid Qutb, one of the founders of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood has its own Koran. Patrick. They don’t follow this Quran. And the reason I didn’t bring it with me is because it’s 30 volumes.

Is that English? That is English.

May I?

Definitely of course here it is English I bought it in English so you can touch the text because only Muslims can touch the Arabic text. So I have to clarify this because there are Muslim viewers who will think that Tawhidi gave Patrick an Arabic Quran. So it’s in English.

Continue. I’m listening. Okay. This here is the first time in history that a Quran is interpreted by a man who says I will interpret based on my own views based on my own understanding.

Because how do you pass the Koranic interpretation? I need you to be with me. Tell me how does it happen? It happens when verses are measured against other verses or against other teachings of the prophet.

Well? Either through scholarly consensus or either through what is analogy or through rational approaches eh. When it comes to the Muslim Brotherhood Quran, it’s the first time in history that a guy says, “I’ll interpret it the way I want to interpret it and I don’t care what the Quran says in other places and I don’t care what it says, what what the prophet says.

This is not unacceptable. Mhm. That’s the Koran of the Muslim Brotherhood. Okay. Ask me your question. No, but to me, you know, it’s like saying, you know, Joseph Smith went out and came out with the Book of and said Jesus after he died, he resurrected and went to Vermont and found six tablets.

And that’s how Mormonism and the Latter-day Saints got started. Then they went from Vermont to I’m going to lose some of this from Vermont to Chicago. Wherever they went they get kicked out and their father had some problems and eventually they end up in uh you know I think Smith is killed. He gets killed in one of these places and then they end up in uh uh Utah and that’s where they build their thing.

So they have the Bible and they have the Book of Mormon. Translation is translation. Okay. But if you go to the OG of the Prophet Muhammad, let’s go to that. For you, who was the Prophet Muhammad? Forget translation. The the face of the Muslim is the Prophet Muhammad.

Is it fair? The face of Islam. The face of Islam is the Prophet Muhammad. Right. Who is the Prophet Muhammad to you? You seem like a very reasonable guy. Right. Who is he to you? The messenger of God. He is the messenger of God. That’s right. Right. Right. Uh tell me you know uh for you what you admire about him the most. Everything. Please break that down. Okay.

The Mohammed that the West has been introduced is not our Mohammed. The Mohammed of the Koran. Very important. And please, Patrick, uh, ask me any questions and if you feel I haven’t answered you, please come back and make sure that uh you are satisfied with my answer.

Uh, I’m not here to uh evade anything uh. So, please, just so you know, you don’t give me that vibe at all, so you don’t even have to explain yourself. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Hey, Arabia needed monotheism. This was a society that worshipped dates and stones and buried their daughters alive, worshipping idols. The tradition of Abraham was corrupted in Arabia. We call this the time of ignorance, it is Jahiliyyah. God sent a man, we believe in the same way He sent Moses and Jesus. His name is Muhammad. Mhm. He sent him to Arabia not to start a new religion but to continue the religion of previous prophets. Moses being you know the final Jewish prophet and uh Jesus being the uh the messenger for the Christians.

Now you can believe that he is the son of God. I see him as a prophet of God. But what we agree on is that he was a messenger of God. What he came with came from God. It came from the you call him the father. I call him Allah. Prophet Muhammad you can read the Quran he came down with. Hey and we say came he came with but it was revealed to him.

Hey so it didn’t come down as a tablet. It came down as verse by verse or certain verses together. His focus in Arabia was monotheism. Who is God? Who is our creator and our responsibility to him?

That’s it. That is the main fundamental pillar of the prophet’s message. Don’t worship idols. Don’t worship idols that you create with your own hands and when you get hungry you eat them out of dates and so on. Don’t have eh sexual relations with your parents. Do not kill your parents. Do not murder the innocent, for example.

Hey, respect the basic noachid laws. This is exactly what our prophet advocated. Then there is the development of a religion. That’s where it gets more interesting because it all goes back to those people following the prophet Muhammad.

The prophet Muhammad was born in 570. He died in 632. He was a prophet for 23 years. In 23 years, all his battles were defensive. And you can look this up as I speak. They were all defensive. And we can talk about the treatment of Christians, of Jews, of any group. Ask me any question.

I will tell you this. But before I do, I want to just point out a book that I think is valuable just for context. Hey by John Tolan eh the faces of Muhammad right so this book shows you that the West itself in this book the author Mr. Tolan talks about the faces of Muhammad in the West. Muhammad during the medieval era.

How did the Western world view him? Muhammad during the reformation era. Muhammad during the age of enlightenment. So when you ask me about my prophet, this question comes from the developments and events that happen in our time. Muhammad was never seen in one way by the West. He was seen as Muhammad the businessman, Muhammad the poet, Muhammad the warrior, Muhammad the father, the father of orphans, Muhammad the statesman.

Correct?

So when I talk about the prophet Muhammad, I will tell you this. He was a man sent by God to Arabia to lead them to monotheism and ethics. That’s it. That’s who he was and that’s what his mission was. And that’s exactly what the Quran uh focuses on.

But yes, it’s a book that speaks to a developing community. There’s going to be conflict. There’s going to be war and there’s going to be peace. There’s going to be a lot of difficult conversations to have. And we shouldn’t shy away from them.

What is the most difficult part of the Koran that you had to accept? No, I accept all of it without difficulty. None of them. No. Because there is no question you can ask me that I don’t have a rational answer for. The most basic one I’ll go to that you’ve probably been asked a million times you know. So Aisha, how do you process it?

Aisha did not marry the prophet at a young age. She was an adult. And I’ve heard you say this before. She was an adult. do you know how many people who are Islam Muslim scholars who do the complete opposite that don’t even debate it? But you debate it. They’re preachers. They’re not imams. They’re preachers.

The son of an imam is not an imam. Just because your dad has a mosque and leads prayers and gives you the microphone to speak, it doesn’t make you a theologian. If the if the average person goes and checks For the way, let’s do this. Let me ask a question in a different way. right? If he married Aisha at 6, if he consummated at 9,

Would you still be a Muslim? The thing is, I would never do that. No, but here’s a different question. I’m asking, right? I would never do that. I’m not asking that question. If your prophet, if this is a yes, it’s a key word.

If he married a six-year-old girl, if he consummated, which means, you know, having sex with someone at 9 that some people, you know, would define that as rape. They wouldn’t even consider it sex. If he did it, would you still be a Muslim?

Patrick, I’m not running away from the question. I swear on my life and on my mother’s life. I’m telling you when you say prophet to me it means an infallible being who doesn’t make a mistake or makes a mistake. No it doesn’t make sense. Then let me ask it in a different way. Okay.

Hey, you are born into a family that is not religious at all. You have to find your own way. It’s not third generation imam. Not Muslim, but not atheist.

Maybe you are agnostic. You go choose and find your own. No not Christian, no Presbyterian, no Jehovah’s Witness, no nothing.

Correct?

Eventually he would end up as a Muslim. And how do you say that, you say that you say that now. And you know, uh uh uh uh I understand saying that, you know, I would also say that I would end up being a Christian myself and I would say that, but none of us know that for sure.

We can play that and say yes, but I understand what I understand the position of having faith in what you’re saying. If we put something on a board, facts of every religion out there, let’s name one of them the religion of whatever. But the founder of that religion that was admired by a couple of billion people, if it was factually proven that he married someone at six and they had sex at nine,

would you ever consider that religion?

If I didn’t say Muslim, I said if it was proven that the founder had done that, would you ever accept that religion?

No. Of course not.

Wouldn’t you?

No. Good. Beautiful. But but again, uh the prophet for us when you say Muhammad, you know what?

processes an infallible human being who makes no mistakes at all or no mistakes at all. So it’s impossible for her to make such a decision and also the problem of eh Aisha eh you have to weigh it against the society and the dates around her. She was born after her sister Asma and died before Asma and I have it in a study that I can definitely send you.

She was either 18 from 18 to 21 years old. There is no Muslim consensus that Aisha was 3 or 6 or 9 or 15. There are more popular opinions because there is a state behind the publications promoting them. Yes, I accept that.

But again, with all due respect, if you put a book in front of me, a history book, and you tell me this book was written by a very respected man, you know what I’ll tell you?

I will tell you, with all due respect, Brother Patrick, I know you gave me a book. You put a book in front of me, but God gave me a brain and I can do math and I can figure out exactly when I was born, where I was. It’s not hard to figure it out. Okay, 18 to 21. Okay. Okay, final verdict according to you is 18 to 21,

right?

According to your opinion, but I have Islamic sources for it. But those are also sources, but they are so the two sources are debating each other. Again, a source is measured and judged based on the author and based on the credibility of the source.

So when you’re telling me that she was uh it’s narrated that it’s 609, I understand where that’s coming from. And I can also tell you that that book is banned in certain countries. So that’s the same book for and I don’t want to mention uh I don’t want to offend uh x% of Muslims by saying this.

But I will tell you this, if a book is rejected because it was trusted by ISIS, it should also be rejected. If it tells you that Aisha was six and that my prophet was a rapist, you reject the book in its entirety.

You know eh so what’s the worst rumor ever made about you? The worst rumor ever made about me? What’s the worst rumor ever made about you?

The worst rumor ever made about you? Eh that’s almost like it’s crazy. No, but the uh you know I would weigh worse because of the value of the source of the rumor. So if there’s someone important Yeah. But but this is this is this is you have to realize when when when people make rumors about uh Clinton and they’ll say went to Epstein Island and you know raped somebody, did this, did that.

Okay. And then there’s a moment where he’s holding a check for $850,000. Another woman who got $850,000 that they settled and these images of Epstein are coming out. Right.

How come these rumors are not there from Jimmy Carter? How come these rumors are not there?

For Jimmy Carter, the rumors were very different with George Bush Senior. The rumors were CIA director, John F. Kennedy, where was he the day John F. Kennedy was assassinated. Okay. The rumors of uh everybody is different.

Can you imagine that you are the prophet of a denomination of a religion where the main source Muslims have to overcome the objection is the fact that your prophet married a six year old girl and consummated at age 9. That is not a widespread one.

This is not President Trump saying Obama was born in Kenya and you know here go show your birth certificate and the day the White House released the birth certificate my graphic designer said this is a BS birth certificate and Obama this is a fake birth certificate we are looking at right this is not that this is something that has been around for a long time

so it’s not like it’s a person who is against Muslims who is saying the founder was six you know married a six year old girl 9 years old wrote that is all over the place. Now let me ask you the second one. The second one is uh uh what is your impression of what happens if I’m a Muslim and I die and I go to heaven.

Are there 72 virgins waiting for me? Where are you with that? Two questions, Patrick, that need to be broken down.

The Qur’an’s Unique Defense of Mary and the 72 Symbolic Virgins
Oh, do it. Go for it. Right. First, regarding the rumors, eh I guess you’re a proud eh Christian.

I am. Okay. What’s the rumor about Mary? Peace be upon her. Good. The mother of Jesus. Yes. What do our Jewish brethren in the Abrahamic faith think of Mary?

Not the same. Okay. And it’s not nice either. It’s not nice either. No. Does it bring you courage that eh Christianity is eh part of an Abrahamic lineage from Abraham?

Well, Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, this tradition all the way up to Jesus that the Bible refers to him. Of course, you have something to stand on theologically. Well, I understand the whole uh concept or faith that uh Jesus Christ is the savior and the son of God.

I understand and that being on top of everything I mentioned. I do understand. But the rumor about Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, is a very serious one. And it is still held according to the Abrahamic faith of Judaism, which both your prophets and my prophets come from. Your prophet was Jesus Christ was a Jew at the end of the day. For us, he is a prophet of the Israelites.

Well? And all of God’s prophets for us were Israelites. We don’t have female prophets, by the way, obviously. But the prophet Muhammad is the only non-Israelite Arab prophet.

Do you know that that rumor is still kept in the tradition of every Jew? And that rumor is kept in the seminaries.

Do you know how that rumor was neutralized at least in the Abrahamic household of ours? This book, the Quran did the greatest service to Christianity. The Quran I believe in, this is the same Quran. When you say people follow a book, this is the same book as if I opened the very heart of this book. Now, give or take a few pages eh here and there because of course you’re dealing with eh a publication that puts a license and a contents page, right?

This we call it Quran, the heart of the Quran here. So the viewers can see it. The first chapter in the heart of the Quran is Sura Maryam the chapter of Mary and it begins by narrating the miracle of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Islam is the only religion that told our Jewish brothers and sisters that Mary gave birth to Jesus without a husband. This is the same book, by the way.

You point out a religion to me that did a disservice to Christianity and Jesus Christ and Mary other than Islam. You didn’t answer the question. No, but I’m getting there. You’re not answering it. So, you have to realize that I was an atheist for 25 years of my life. Right.

And what you just said there was one of the reasons why I had difficulty being a Christian because for me it was that it was an era of naivete. How hard is it for someone to convince people that I was a virgin and I’m pregnant and I haven’t had sex with anyone.

How did I get pregnant? For someone to believe that that’s a logical person, that’s a math guy, that’s me. I’m not a Christian 25 years old. I’m an atheist. You couldn’t get me into a church. I thought it was for weak people. So, a lot of these things you’re saying, logically, I was the guy you were talking about. And I’m not even a Jew. I was just an atheist.

I’m like, “No, this the life I lived living in Iran, seeing all the bombings, seeing their Hezbollah, seeing what Saddam Hussein was doing, seeing what Khamenei was doing, seeing what happened to a once great nation where anybody from around the world would come to vacation in Iran vacation for Iran.

No. So, I came from that, but you haven’t answered the question yet. Please ask. The question is about the prophet, you know, uh la la la la the criticism of him when you read the stories about his wives, when you read the stories about Aisha, specific to Aisha, I asked you two things.

It was Aisha and it was 20 the 72 virgins when I die. Yeah. Right. So 72 virgins is real. That’s in Islam. It’s in the is in the is in the is in the is in the concept of it. That’s a little weird. The concept of it is in the Koran. Yes. Uh but uh again uh again uh let me break it down.

So when you read these things in the Koran, please Patrick, please uh let’s not forget the uh type of community to whom these statements were issued. We’re not talking about Oxford graduates or Harvard graduates. This was a primitive society that needed guidance.

And so in their mindset there were certain things that they considered valuable and rewards. And unfortunately one of them again is women. right? So the word 70 in Islam and in the Arabic tradition in Arabic literature in general means a lot.

It doesn’t mean exactly 72. You know, you’ll have preachers, again, I’m talking about preachers, uh, preachers who say, uh, each one of these virgins comes with a hundred maidens, so we’re not going to stop counting. And each maiden has one has one has a secondary mate.

So, what is this? You know, uh, at the end of the day, there’s a solid Abrahamic tradition that focuses on purity and piety. And then you have the development of a religion and there are conversations between the uh the religious hierarchy and the uh adherence of that religion.

We have traditions for example where our prophet would sit and uh people would come and ask him the same question and he would answer in a different way. He wouldn’t uh disguise people but he would give the same answer in a different way and the companions would say why would you answer them differently. He says because the first one was a farmer.

If I give you examples using trees and and fruits you would understand. And the second guy was a businessman. If I talk to him in real estate he will understand better. It’s more about being relatable. So number one, the idea of 72 virgins is not a pillar in Islam. It means if you don’t believe in it, you can’t be a complete Muslim.

No, it’s there in the Quran part of a conversation between religion and development and and and and developing society with a reminder that you’re talking about a society. Patrick, can I just uh ask my brother here, can you just uh go to Google, Patrick, first I should have said this first. I commend you for your clarity. really? I haven’t done podcasts in America for seven years, maybe eight years.

Yeah. I don’t get invitations for seven or eight years. I can open my phone and show you the kind of people invited, right? But uh if I don’t listen to a podcast myself and I don’t respect the interviewer, not when I hear you interviewing other people, you know, when you’re listening to somebody and and in your mind you have something to say about it, you’re that guy. You always say exactly what I’m thinking.

Hey and I commend your clarity on many of these issues, but please, this is good. I want to continue. Uh go over there and and put uh uh uh Quranic verse uh enter the house through its door. Okay, click on that and click on that down there’s a first link, right? Baqara 189. Wait.

Okay, here we go. Chapter 2 verse 189. Do you want to highlight that please? The second sentence.

Okay. You see that, Patrick? Hey, I’m going to go to the end of that verse there. Righteousness is not in entering your homes through the back doors. Rather, righteousness is being Allah conscious. So, enter your homes through their proper doors. Patrick, tell me why is it that the Archangel Gabriel, this is again I’m talking about the Islamic tradition.

The Archangel Gabriel who brought each of these verses down upon the prophet Muhammad. And in the Qur’an, we are told when revelation comes down the prophet his temperature goes up, right?

It is something heavy that is being bestowed upon you. You are receiving a message from God. He begins to sweat. He’s in fear. Now, the prophet has to go through that whole process so that then a verse tells him, “Please tell your guys and tell the believers. He’s speaking to the Muslims, the new the new the first Muslim community in Mecca, enter your house through the front door.”

What were you doing? Like, what were you doing? See that’s the level of intellect that we need to be aware of? These are people who weren’t used to anything logical that you and I have. You know, you know, when you meet somebody basic common sense and basic logic, that doesn’t exist. And you can’t expect that from somebody who buries their daughter alive.

You can’t. Someone who plans to bury daughters alive is a disgrace. That’s the level of mentality that our prophet had to deal with. Patrick Jesus Christ came to a civilization. He came to a civilization where they were Romans and the Jewish civilization alone is huge. That’s why he didn’t have to go through what our prophet went through.

Our prophet was dealing with people who don’t understand him. The struggle was real. I’m telling you, you’re not dealing with just one situation. These are the kind of people. You have to tell them when you go home, please use the front door. like the revelation needs to take place because they were digging holes from the back of their houses and coming in from the back after completing the pilgrimage.

But why would you have a front door if you don’t use it? You’re saying the the the the following of the Prophet Muhammad during the time he was and where he was there wasn’t a level of advancement. So it was a higher level of naivete with the people versus Jesus Christ came to a place where there was already an established society. is that what you’re saying?

Beautifully put. Right. So then help me correlate those two together because one would say that’s even a greater opportunity to manipulate and deceive and persuade a more naive audience than a more educated audience that would be harder to do that.

No, but they had their own traditions and they had their own gods. Like I said, they worshipped their own idols. They had everything in place. There was a functional tribal society. Who were they who idolized before uh the Prophet Muhammad?

Hey, the idols. You want to take that out? Just put the lat idol. Yes. No. No. L with a T. Yes. Y U Z A U Z A U double Z. No, no. U Z A Yes. Yes. Yes. There you go. Also the three main goddesses of the Arab religion, pre-Islamic. And she was worshipped by the pre-Islamic Arabs and the Al-Lat and Manat the stone cube of Nakhlah near Mecca was considered sacred as part of their calling.

She mentioned in Quran 53:19 as being one of the goddesses that people worship. So it goes into a time where the level of naivete is high but before that they had some traditions just like Abraham. Abraham had to deal with Nimrod and idol worship. But hey keep that back to that Wikipedia page please.

Hey, I want you to click on there where your mouse is. You see pre-Islamic Quraysh. Click on that. Okay? That’s the main Arab tribe that ruled Mecca. It’s called Quraysh. And our prophet was from Quraysh. So, not only did he come to a society, he was rebelling against his own people. They were the establishment.

Do you see that? So many people think that our prophet came against Jews and Christians. That’s tribal alliances. We’ll get to that later. But the establishment itself was the family of the prophet.

The so-called conquest of Mecca where the prophet entered and took Mecca, he was simply returning home. So by law, if the chiefs of by tribal law, by international law, if the owners of the land submit to you and by tribal law and Islamically, all laws submit that the prophet entering Mecca without a single drop of blood shed, right?

He took Mecca. So he entered home. He is from Quraysh. He came to guide and Quraysh opposed him and tried to assassinate him. So when he came back, what he did was without shedding a single drop of blood, he entered Mecca, which is today the holiest site for Muslims. And there are reasons why Mecca is the holiest site for Muslims. It’s not just the location where God eh placed his house. I don’t know if we are aware of that.

Hey can you just click on Mecca, the first line there? Beautiful. Okay. Click on that black cube there, the image. So we Muslims believe that Adam, our father Adam, the father of mankind because again Muslims believe that there were humans before Adam. So he was a prophet, prophet to whom?

There must have been a nation that came to lead. Uh the point is the prophet Adam. So we refer to him as Prophet Adam. Eh came to Arabia and and created the foundation for this Kaaba for the house of God.

And then Abraham came and built it. And since then it has undergone renovations. So floods would take place. For example, Noah’s flood we believe. And then there’s this uh theological question of why Noah’s flood would even disturb the structure of the Kaaba. And uh that’s because it was full of idols at that time.

It was not eh la la as sacred as it is after it was purified by eh the prophet. So this was full of idols. Inside of it were idols. Where that gate is, up and around, they were full of idols. So I think we went down a different way. But going back, I still want you to know that the prophet came to an established community that had incredible poets, had mathematicians.

But when we say ignorant, they were ignorant of things to do with religion, with God, and they were firm in their belief of idols. And to be honest, when you said what is the problem that uh you struggle a lot in Islam, I thought you were going to ask me about the wife beating verse. I really thought so. But then you took it another way.

But hey we can discuss that too. But when it comes to the community, please keep in mind the
Why Imam Tawhidi Refuses to Abandon His Sequestered Religion
community was not a highly developed community at that time.

Well? So what what if by the way just so you know for me uh you know sometimes people see and wonder what Patrick is Islamophobic is this is that my chef who has been with my family for 3 years who is with us in our house is a Muslim chef from Turkey and he’s still a Muslim he hasn’t converted to Christianity he is a Muslim himself he cooks for us eh he had an assistant named Hutan who was a Muslim who was with me for a year one of the nicest guys I met in my But then I have hundreds of stories from the other side also of what happened eh eh eh that I have personally witnessed.

So I want you to know I have met many many peaceful people like you who are Muslim who are amazing human beings to dine with, have conversations with and uh uh major respect to those guys. This is not a blanket statement about everybody. Part of my challenge is to try to see if the two can coexist because if you can’t coexist then don’t force it to coexist.

Let them individually build their own partnerships and see what can happen. Let me go to my next question here with you. And I know how you are, so you’ll probably want to comment on that as well. And you can go ahead. I’m really interested in hearing both your answers on uh eh eh on both topics.

But let’s just say you’re leaving today. Okay, we’re done with the podcast. I tell you, I imam respectfully don’t think you’re 100% there. I think you need to consider, you know, becoming a Christian. And you say 100%, no way. You know, even if I came from that agnostic family, I would still end up being where I am now.

You said that about 30 minutes ago. But let’s say something happens. You have a miracle that happens. Something happens. You’re going to sleep tonight. You have a, you know, dream. You, it’s a dream. You’re sitting there having a conversation with Jesus. And whatever you’re seeing, all of a sudden, the next day, you know what? I’m going to become a Christian.

If that were to happen, what happens to you? Dreams are not eh evidence or proof for us or for the logical. Forget the dream. You read the Bible. You had a moment. You pray what I have. And you pray and decide you want to become a Christian. Your choice.

What is wrong with you? I already believe in Jesus Christ as a prophet of God. No, but you leave. You give up being a Muslim and become a Christian. Okay. Let me answer you please. But please let me answer you. No problem. I haven’t interrupted you, so go ahead.

No, and believe me, it’s a real pleasure to sit down with you, Patrick. Hey, not only are you respectful, you come from a region where you understand exactly what I’m saying. And I love the fact that the viewers will know that if I’m somehow not being direct, you would have the knowledge to say, “Wait.” Right? So, I appreciate that.

These questions do not apply to me, Patrick. This question doesn’t apply to me. And the question you asked when you played my uh when I was warning the West, you said, “Well, can anyone say why he’s still a Muslim?” That doesn’t apply to me either.

Why?

Because that would be asking me to let go of what is mine. I didn’t say let go of a religion. That I adhere to or believe in. I’m not talking about belief here. This is not a faith issue. I will not let go of what is mine. I repeat. It is mine.

What does this mean?

It means that I am a Muslim who is an Arab coming from the tribe of Tai being one of the most prominent tribes in Arabia. And God sent a prophet. You know how in Judaism God sends eh prophets from the Israelites to the Israelites, right?

So God sent a prophet to us who spoke our language and God sent his book in my language. The Quran says inside that we created it or made it an Arabic Quran for you to understand. It means that its original language was not Arabic. It was made Arabic for us.

If God in Islam wants to speak to the Somali community, he speaks to them in Arabic. They can translate it all they want. But this is the language of Islam, Arabic. God doesn’t have a language. But God spoke to us in Arabic, in my language, in my mother tongue. And he sent a prophet to us.

He did not put us in a different continent. And then a prophet came to us from a different continent as Islam moved and people converted after receiving his message in Malaysia and Indonesia and and the Indian subcontinent. This is mine. My ancestors are the companions of the prophet gave two eyes for the prophet defending him.

I am not a convert who came walked into this religion 50 or 20 years ago. My DNA is as old as this religion. When the prophet first came to Arabia, we believed in him and stood with him and did everything he said. This religion is where it is today because of us and people like me.

Arab Muslims, the children of the Prophet’s companions, the children of the Prophet’s family, those who married the Prophet, those who took his message and defended him and spread his message for him. That is us. That is why Islam is directed from Mecca.

That is why it is directed from Saudi Arabia and from the UAE. Because we are the first generation of Muslims that the prophet would receive message from God and deliver it to our people, my ancestors to suggest that I leave.

He is mine. Why would I let him go? Khamenei needs to leave religion, not me. Khamenei needs to leave religion. Ilhan Omar needs to leave the religion. The Muslim Brotherhood needs to leave my religion.

I own. Patrick, if you have 10 houses, as an example, and somebody decides to squat your house, and then society tells you, well, you have many houses. One of them is called Bahrain, one is called Oman, one is called naming Muslim countries.

Mhm. Why don’t you leave? You’re going to say what? I understand, but it’s mine. That’s how I feel, Patrick, when I see these extremist Islamists. It’s not my opinion versus theirs or theirs versus mine. It’s them who have crossed the line into my faith and hijacked it and with money and influence have come here first and become the face of my religion. That is how I feel.

So please, it’s not us versus them. It’s them thieves who need to leave. He needs to change his turban for a crown representing my God and my prophet with his turban. That turban curses him daily. If he wears it saying it is a symbol of religion and piety, that turban curses daily. And my turban is in it, so I am wearing it. That is the difference.

I am a theologian, right? I am a clergyman. I am not a politician. I’m talking to you this way. So when I talk about my religion, I’m talking about something that is mine, not something that I subscribe to or heard about or was born with. No, it belongs to us. I was born with it. I will carry it until the day I die.

That’s the difference. Patrick, I wish you knew uh I wish you knew how much I respect people who have the ability to be reasonable and have reasonable conversation and have conviction. We don’t have to agree on things.

I have tremendous respect for your likewise ability to be reasonable and have the conviction that you have and the pride in where you are and saying it’s not me that needs to go, it’s them that needs to go. But that still doesn’t answer my question. Well, that was a beautiful seven minutes that you went on.

I’m asking. I’m sorry, I didn’t. No, no, I love it. And I would have let you go 30 more minutes. No I don’t want you to take it as if time is uh limited. Even though we’re coming to the end, I’d like to go a few more minutes with you.

Hey it’s if you were to leave and let’s change the question. You have a very persuasive way of delivering your message. You have a following. You have tens, if not hundreds of millions of views online. You have millions of followers. People follow you and what you have to say.

Let’s say you influence someone. You will never meet this person, but they follow your teaching the way you suggest what books, what sect, what scripture to pass, and the way you deliver the message. That person has been a follower of yours and the way you teach the religion of Islam, the way you spend the last 10 years and that person chooses to leave.

What’s wrong with them?

That person says, “I don’t want to be a Muslim anymore. I’m like apostasy.” Yes. They are free to leave according to who? According to Islam, there’s no law, okay, that’s agreed upon that says they need to be killed. Okay. So then then what is eh how eh and and and I’m trying to see if you’ve ever done anything because I don’t know if you have or not.

How uh uh how do you see some of these social media influencers that are out there debating uh the religion of Islam? How do you see some of these guys get a lot of views? Yeah, you said. Influencers. Not not scholars.

So give me some names like who would you say and say this is a valid person they have called many people. There is no one greater to call than today. You’ve called Vahid. Okay.

You have called Khamenei. You have called many people. They are dwarfs in the region. They may be midgets in their region, but they are giants with the amount of money and influence they have and control they have. So you can say that but they have control.

And guess what?

As incredible as the Shah of Iran was, he was only able to control that beautiful place for 37 years. These guys have been able to control it for 46 years. 46 years for the West, for America. That’s a different conversation. We can get to that as well. But I want to I want to get to the question.

When you see some of these influencers, who would you say reasonable? Just one,
Sheikh Zayed as the Muslim Brotherhood’s Model Cancer Leader.
you know, social media guy, not a real guy, this guy is a real guy.

Who would you say? And have you debated any of these guys? I’m not a debater. Sometimes things happen eh and you find yourself in front of someone talking. Uh I’m not a debater, but uh you have to realize that the young youth is consuming their content around the world and it’s only going to get bigger. And that’s representing what you believe in, right?

Hey, if there is one man I would direct people to listen to or read his words and read about him, it would be Sheikh Zayed, the founder of the UAE. It would be that man, the father of the current president Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan get him out.

That man, that man took the UAE from a regular Arab state that could go anywhere to anywhere eh other states went and turned it into a beacon of hope and never once violated Islam or its principles or its morals.

This is what a Muslim leader looks like. why is it Patrick that when the leader of ISIS for example speaks people say look Muslim leader leader why is it when Khamenei speaks he is a Muslim leader but when this man speaks no one says Muslim leader no he is a Muslim leader this is a legend he passed away and may God have mercy on his soul this man is the reason why we have the Abrahamic family house today he is the reason why Christians have the largest parish in the UAE. He is the reason why there is coexistence.

You know, it’s the reason why the Pope gets up from the Vatican and visits Abu Dhabi to sign the Abu Dhabi document on human fraternity. That’s the reason behind it. There’s an archive of books and text and speeches by this man that if every Arab state had a ruler like him, it would be heaven on earth.

I say that. And I chose this man because he has passed away and no one can accuse me of eh trying to get close to a current ruler. He has passed away and he left behind a legacy that is Islamic that makes Islam look exactly like our prophet wanted it to be. When did he pass away? He passed away. I did. In 2004.

Yeah. So, you know that amazing mosque, Grand Mosque in Abu Dhabi that world leaders go to? It’s buried just outside the courtyard. It’s is a fascinating place to visit and see just uh I mean he didn’t get the mosque started, the construction of the mosque, but he didn’t get the opportunity to pray. Yes.

It is the Grand Mosque of Abu Yes, that one there. Sheikh Zayed Grand Mosque. If you want to click on that in bold, that’s the mosque. You’re that one there. It’s a fascinating place. You know that’s where that’s Abu Dhabi. That’s Dubai. Yes. This is what Islam looks like. Not extremist preachers. I’ve been there. Yeah. No terrorist cells. Not Muslim Brotherhood nonsense. Yes. Right.

And uh Patrick, I know uh we are limited in time, but I can’t finish without showing you this. I’m not selling anything. This is important. This is the cancer that has infiltrated America. This is from our organization, Trends Research and Advisory.

The CEO sends his regards. This here is for you. This is about the international Muslim Brotherhood organization. It shows you how they started 98 years ago in Egypt and infiltrated society. This here is their organizational structure. Hey, tell me where we are with the time. And this, by the way, is their path to a global caliphate. This is what the UAE is putting forward to warn.

And by the way, this is a few volumes out of I think 30 volumes. The project is like 15 volumes out and and and translated into 16 languages. This is their road to a caliphate, the cancer of the Muslim Brotherhood. And they need to be called out. You know, we can talk about Islam all day long. We can talk theology. We can talk about conversions. No problem. But when I leave the studio, this is the cancer that we have to deal with.

Which one should I read first? The one you’re holding. This guy. Oh, right. Oh, right. Yeah. Just so you know which book my son is reading right now. My son is reading the Koran right now. Hey, I’ve got my oldest son reading Communist Manifesto on the Shrugged, the Bible, the Koran. He’s going to read about all these guys to learn for himself and get questions.

I can tell you for me, I’m going to go through this book and read them myself. But, uh, you know, I can talk to you for six more hours. You know, I don’t have 50 more questions for you, but we can’t do an eight-hour podcast. Hey, go for it. Well, I didn’t give this to you at the beginning, but I came here with something for you because uh if I give this to you at the beginning, then it might be bribery.

You could be nice to me throughout the whole eh conversation. That’s fair. So, in the end, this my brother is 100 real. Oh, you’ve got to be kidding me. From the time of the rare, uncirculated shah. I’ve had it with me for almost 15 years. And I said, you know, this needs to go to brother Patrick. You’re awesome. Because I feel like you would appreciate it.

Are you kidding me? Like, do you mind if I show it to him to see what it is? Yes. This is This is the kind of thing that just uh uh means the world to me. Gifts like this. This is the kind of stuff you’ll never be able to buy from
Calling a ‘Clash of Turbans’ to Combat Extremist Narratives
me. Never for the rest of my life will you ever be able to buy this from me. This is going in the safe. You are unbelievable. I appreciate this gift.

And and I have to I have to tell you, you know, I think uh uh uh there are some podcasts that uh you do where at the end uh you know, I’ll go like I’m going to go have lunch right now with a guy and I’m going to say, you know who won today? I think the audience won today. I think the audience won today because the audience is going to watch this and they’re going to say there’s some things that I really like what uh you know the imam had to say.

You made a very good point there and there is something you are going to was asking interesting question Pat asking what I had to say here but anyway we are getting smarter and and and the basis I like about this a lot of times people will say well come you know come bring me bring me bring me if you can respect I will bring anyone and you have been nothing but respectful from the beginning to the end eh I respect that a lot and I look forward to having many many many more conversations like this one

again the two of us together anytime you need to contact me you can contact me anytime this has been uh a pleasure sitting here talking to you.

Thank you very much, Patrick.

Uh I would like to end with uh very brief statement that uh we are all different people and we don’t have to be the same. We are different. We were created different, but we find ourselves in the same region, speaking the same language, eating the same food, uh going to the same places.

And I think that allowing extremists to operate uncritically and without shedding light on their cancer that they bring to society is wrong. And with what we did today, we were able to not only highlight that but also give you an understanding of what’s on my mind and also what made me who I am today.

There are many things we did not discuss that we will leave for future interactions. But I want to say one thing. The truth is worth it, Patrick. The truth is worth it. It’s worth losing friends over. It’s worth being controversial for it. It’s worth eh challenge.

This could have gone a lot of different ways. Patrick could have, you know, people were telling me, “Be careful. You never know how this will go.” But I’ll tell you this. The truth is worth getting in front of millions of people and saying this religion is here to serve and lead.

In its beginning, in its origins it was run in a certain way that is about eh belief in one God and harmony and coexistence among all people and that was hijacked by extremists.

That needs to be said and it needs to be said by someone like me. What do you do with the 100 million of them? The 100 million, believe it or not, are governed. That’s what we’re going to go with 100 million.

Regardless of how many there are, they are always governed by a small number at the top. If the small number at the top is managed, then you will find the 100 million dispersing like any other society.

There are religions that no longer exist, languages that no longer exist. Why? Because the scholars have passed away.

What should happen to these guys?

Hey, we have a few more minutes. Yes, Patrick. There needs to be the clash of the turbans. Turbans need to start clashing, not physically, verbally. There needs to be online presence on TV of imams who reject the Muslim Brotherhood. Osama bin Laden does not represent us.

He would be executed in Saudi Arabia if he had been captured and the people doing that would be Muslim for killing so many Americans. There needs to be imams coming out and speaking English. Unfortunately, there is a language barrier. I understand that I’m not the only one who speaks this way.

There are those in Farsi that you are familiar with and those in the Arab world as well. I need to mention Piers Morgan. Mhm. After October 7, people were turning to the Muslim world and they want to see the face of the Muslim community. And I’m I’m really sorry to say this.

The people Piers Morgan had on his show were not imams. They were preachers or academics and they were anti-Semites at the same time. You know, Gaza, who do you mean? You know, it’s not about defamation. I don’t want to dirty my mouth with their names.

People like okay eh followers should not be the face of Islam.

What?

But it’s important that you qualify because I think you already know if you don’t assume that everyone who is not Muslim who is Christian or Jewish or something else who knows all about the different sects you’re seeing especially the naïve in the middle who will see

so you just said the name of someone what is an organization what can you talk to us about that organization and what is their teaching is an organization what is their logo just take it out please put H I Z B T A H R I R well you see that logo that planet earth just click on that logo for me please.

look at that that’s their logo the Al-Qaeda banner going across planet earth they want global caliphate these guys exist everywhere so one of the guest doctors from the UK that appears had in after October 7 because that’s when people want to hear from Muslims right was from this organization

and again I am not blaming Piers in any way I am answering your question I am saying such platforms need to bring in Muslims who have clarity of mind and thought and have depth in their understanding of religion from the Quran and can answer questions right not Muslims who just want to eh talk about Gaza and the Palestinian cause which is neither here nor there.

You know, the Palestinian cause is not central to Islam or to the region. It’s just another problem like we’re dealing with any other problem.

Would you and Muhammad Hijab agree on much? Of course not. Definitely not. I’d be damned if I approved of anything I said. He’d bury me alive if he agreed with me. Why do you say that? That is a disgrace.

Why do you say that?

An absolute disgrace. Hijab. He and his community. He and his Are they part of that community or not? Right. Right. So, the community you were talking about. The Muslim Brotherhood in general is not a monolith. It comes in many faces. The academic face.

Comes in long beard eh without mustache eh appearances. They come in in in different forms. But me if you look if you ask me eh about him is the same thing as though telling me if a Khamenei deputy in America agreed with you how would you feel?

No. These are people who I do not categorize as peaceful people who want to coexist with Christians and Jews at all. This is not a community that is the face of Islam at all. Our father Abraham wants us to live together. That is what I am saying.

What does Abraham want? When we say we are Abrahamic family, what does that mean? It means that our father Abraham wants us to coexist, to live in harmony, to live together, not to spill each other’s blood. Whoever doesn’t advocate coexistence and harmony and peace and I don’t like the word tolerance but I understand it. You know I am tolerating you. Not acceptance of each other. You are a human.

I accept you on that level as a human without the need to change you so I can accept you. No, I accept you as you are. And that religion is here to guide. You have yours. I have mine. And mine is a lot like yours. And yours is a lot like the Torah.

Why? Because the one God spoke to Moses, spoke to Jesus, spoke to the prophet Mohammed. It is the same source of information. Nobody copied anybody. Nobody plagiarized anything from anybody. But this is Islam, monotheism, and Arab characteristics for an Arab society. A lot of blood was shed for people to realize then we need peace and coexistence.

I believe in the professional way. Diplomacy, interreligious dialogue, uh, research, studies. That’s the way I take. I don’t take the path of taking your shirt off in public, which is what these people do, and chanting and and yelling and screaming and shouting and yelling. This is silly, childish.

What are you going to change in the world? No, I believe in professional speech, that’s why we have the amount of followers we have. People listen to us and that’s why extremists hate us more because of the impact we have on people in society. Yes. Hey the other doctor you were talking about what bothered you about the doctor the what did she say? Is he what did he say? Is that No. Do you want to put doctor? Yes. Here.

Who is the doctor? But what did he say? I’ll tell you. Hold on. I think if you go in pictures I think it’s him I think yes this this this handsome guy now this this tells you how Piers needs to know this guy would go into a society to bring it down. They want a global caliphate. Yes if they if they rule they would execute the king.

If they rule, they will execute the king and execute non-Muslims. And even Muslims like me would be third class, not even second class, if not total apostasy beheading. It is cancer.

Your Muslim Brotherhood on steroids. The Muslim Brotherhood is more pragmatic. They will participate in elections, you know, uh like in Morocco for example, they will show respect to the king.

But when the Gen Z uprising starts, they start funding them. So Muslim Brotherhood is more strategic. Hizb ut-Tahrir openly says, we don’t believe in your courts. We don’t believe in your incorporation systems. We will operate without incorporation.

There is no legal status and there is nothing you can do about it. This guy can’t be. And by the way, Piers didn’t agree with him on anything. Piers was really good. My problem is look, by the way, look at the hat he’s wearing.

The red that is the cap of the Muslim Brotherhood. If you go to Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, that’s the cap they wear. He he comes to the studio telling you he’s an extremist and then you expect him to condemn Hamas.

Of course, he’s not going to do it, which he never did. But my problem with Piers is that there needs to be eh proper imams from the UK who are platformed in an equal amount or bring them face to face. As I said, turban shock, excuse me.

Let them clash. Let the British and let the Americans see the clash within the Muslim community. Let them see it because if they don’t see it, they only see this guy. Are you proposing that you’re open to the idea or you don’t want to have anything to do with it? No. Piers invited me, but he invited me in a while.

Your producer did it invited me at a time where people were eager to appear on screen to capitalize eh on the eh suffering of the Palestinians and I prefer a more calm civilized discussion with the host alone and I prefer it in person. Hey and I also appreciate being asked relevant questions like you asked me today.

These are the questions Americans think of when they see someone who looks like me. And you asked me about Imam of Peace. When I was first called Imam of Peace, I adopted it, Patrick.

Why?

Because unfortunately, if you don’t put yourself in a box, they will put you in a box. That’s the main reason why that’s my handle. Well, this is part one of I’m sure many and uh it was a pleasure to have you on. God bless you. Thanks for the gift. God bless you too. Thank you.

Safe travels. And is there anywhere you want people to go to learn more about you? Where would you like them to go? Just uh I’m on Twitter. I mean, well. Hey Imam of Peace.

There you go, Rob. If we can put that handle down so the audience can go find them, and I appreciate the gifts and the books, folks. God bless. Have a good day. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye, everybody. Bye-bye, everybody. God bless. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

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